Does it feel like you’ve been spinning your wheels, trying to create engaging, entertaining, and impactful live video content, with little to no success? Are you tired of blindly following outdated advice, only to end up disappointed with the lackluster results? If any of this resonates, this episode is for you!
Get ready to learn from Nicole Rechtszaid, a livestream consultant specializing in influencer and brand marketing as well as short-form video and talent training. She is the founder of Ghost Agency, a women-owned creative agency in Los Angeles that provides scalable livestream and social media services to brands and influencers alike. While most agencies try to trap you into long-term deals for their benefit, they specialize in tailored consultation, transferring their skills and knowledge to avoid ongoing costs that minimize ROI.
In this episode, Nicole shares her valuable insights and experience to help listeners take their live shopping success to the next level. She discusses what a live streaming agency does and how to find the right person to host a live shopping event. She also shares steps to create a successful live ecommerce event like identifying the right host, creating an incentive for viewers to join the stream, designing a set, and fostering a sense of community.
Furthermore, Nicole also gives advice on how to protect your brand and audience from the dark side of live streaming. She offers up case studies of brands thriving on live components of platforms like TikTok and Twitch. Hear Nicole’s opinions that differ from live shopping professionals. Don’t miss out on this valuable episode that will take your content creation to the next level!
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The US livestreaming market is expected to hit $25 billion by 2023. That’s why now is the time to build your skills, understand the medium, and ensure that your livestreams are successful.
Scaling Social Commerce: Insights From Livestream Consultant Nicole Rechtszaid
Our special guest is Nicole Rechtszaid, who is a live-stream consultant that specializes in influencer and brand marketing, as well as short-form video and talent training. It is right up our alley with this show. We’re very excited to speak with her. She’s the Founder of Ghost Agency, which is a women-owned creative agency in Los Angeles that provides scalable live stream and social media services to brands and influencers alike. While most agencies try to trap you into long-term deals for their benefit, they specialize in tailored consultation, transferring their skills and knowledge to avoid ongoing costs that minimize return on investment, which sounds wonderful. We have much to talk about with her. Before we get to that, Nicolas has a short update on what’s going on over at eStreamly.
We are super excited to have you, Nicole. It’s been almost three years now that you’ve been in this space. If you look at the scale of the US market, this is a long time ago. It’s exciting, at least from the live shopping perspective. Quick update on eStreamly, I’ve got two things going on. We are at Shoptalk. We have a booth there. If you are in the aisle and want to say hi, we would love to have you come say hi. We are on the startup aisle. We would love to see you, check you in, and all that.
Maybe you’ve been following this episode for a while, or maybe that’s the first time we have new cover art, which I personally like. It was a contribution from of few of our listeners who have commented about how we make it better. Thank you for you all. We have a quick update on the fact that we will be on the Top 40 List Of The Most Innovative Company In Georgia. I’m super excited about that. I’m super thrilled to get in the conversation with you, Nicole.
It’s three years in this space, especially for the US market. We’re not talking about China or eCommerce with the introduction of QVC or HSN from a digital perspective. It’s been a long time. It sounds like you were one of the very few that were there at the beginning. I’d love to have a feel for what your journey has been like. Where did you start? You already have been through three companies that are doing this in this space. That’s your third. Tell us a little bit about your journey and how you stumbled into live shopping. Tell us a little bit more about you.
Thank you both so much for having me on. I’m excited to chat with you and thrilled about the community you’ve created here. As for my journey in the world of live shopping, it started back in 2014 when I was a creator myself. It was on a platform called YouNow. This is 2014, the Wild West. There were no rules and everything was a little bit crazy on the platform. Since then, I ended up going behind the scenes and helping different brands and influencers on their monetization journey.
I have been through a few different agencies and tech companies in the live streaming space, focusing on brands as the main focal point. I started my own agency about a year ago to help different influencers and brands on their live shopping journey across different platforms and try to simplify this so that they can understand something that seems a little bit strange and mysterious.
If we think about live shopping in general, people are thinking about, “What do I need to get ready for live shopping? I probably need a host and a technology solution. It can be in a marketplace. I need a phone or some kind of device to capture my audio and all that.” When we think about the surrounding of live shopping, at least from what we see, it’s not automation. We’re thinking about marketing and all those different things that need to happen to make it successful.
Certainly, people tend to go with the agency that they work with and say, “I want to do this live shopping thing. How can I make it happen?” From your perspective, what is a live shopping agency, and why does a brand need one? I’m curious also to understand from a creator perspective because you say you’re not only helping a brand, but you’re also a creator. I would love to hear what you are doing from a creator standpoint as well.
For brands, in particular, when you are going to a traditional marketing agency or advertising agency, if they don’t have a live stream or live shopping experience, they won’t understand what this environment has to create in order for viewers to make that next step to purchase because it’s an involved process. It’s not a prerecorded event or a static image. You’re having to create an experience for them virtually. There has to be an incentive for people to be a part of it.
That includes having a customized set design and creating a niche specific to platform call-to-actions. You don’t want to do things in a traditional QVC sense for most eCommerce platforms and most social commerce platforms in general, where you’re being super product focused and very outdated. Especially if you’re trying it with Gen Z or Millennials, you need to ensure that you’re creating this entertaining commerce, which I think a lot of agencies aren’t familiar with because they don’t understand this environment since it is new. We all are learning as we’re going through this journey together.
As for the creator end, within a live streaming agency in general, what we often will work with are creators who are trying to break into Western markets as our version of KOLs. If you’re not familiar, KOL in the Asian market is a Key Opinion Leader. They’re not necessarily always going to be a traditional influencers, but rather a trusted person in the industry who can provide guided product experience and make people understand that. Because of that, what we are trying to do is take both influencers who might not have live streaming experience and hosts who might not have influencer experience, and give them the means necessary so that they can understand how to become successful live sellers. This goes both for creators and for brands, and making sure that they have the right hosts since that is one of the most important pieces to having a successful live show.Having the right host is one of the most important pieces to a successful live show. Click To Tweet
I’m glad you’re saying all this because we want to hear this so much. We are very much in alignment with what you’re saying. It seems also that what you’re saying, which we’ve experienced on our end, is there’s a lot of inexperience and ignorance in this space. I’ve been doing this show for 72 episodes, I didn’t know what KOL is. Thank you for defining that. I love the way that you’re framing it and talking about how it’s a little bit different from the traditional influencer when it comes to social media.
A lot of people are bringing in traditional viewpoints of marketing, including very old versions of marketing, plus the newer versions of marketing with social media. You have to approach live shopping a bit differently. Live in general, you’re going to approach differently because it’s live. You’re not editing it. We’ve talked about in many episodes all the benefits of being live because it feels more authentic, which is a big thing in marketing. People want to believe that you mean what you say. It’s not contrived or superficial. It feels very organic. I’m curious how that plays a role when it comes to being a key opinion leader versus an influencer. What are some other things that people can look for when they’re trying to find the right person to host their live shopping event?
I have an opinion that differs from many live shopping professionals in who you should have as your host. While I am an advocate for a great influencer, I have a lot of concerns about influencers who don’t have live streaming experience to partner with brands. Oftentimes, if they’ll host a live stream without experience, they’re going to feel uncomfortable and there will be gaps in the conversation. One of the top questions I receive from brands is, “How do we fill a 2 or 3-hour-long live stream with content?” If you’re hiring an influencer who has traditionally posted static content for you and they don’t have experience, they’re going to lose themselves in the stream.
They’re going to try and answer questions in chat, but if there’s a lag in the conversation, there’s going to be those empty spaces. What I often will recommend is instead having your employees who are bubbly and know your products host live streams. For enterprises, this might not be for you, but if you have a great person on your team who knows how to do this sort of thing, unless there is help in this, have them be a part of and an advocate for your brand.
Especially for small to medium-sized businesses, this is the route I recommend most. Many of our clients, for example, Educational Insights, they’re one of the most popular STEM toy brands. They have an incredible QVC host on their team who is hosting all of their Amazon Live streams. We walked them through a program to teach them how to host and run these Amazon Live streams. They’ve had their employee now take on that role to host streams and remain engaging because they’re the product experts. They can answer questions about products. They are developing the products and on the backend of that experience. What’s often most important is having someone who can speak to the products and also fill in those empty gaps.
Going back a little bit from a couple of episodes we had and people we had on the show. We had Sarah Williams, which is this bubbly figure you’re talking about in the team of a pretty sizable organization that end up rising the rank and wanting to be on QVC, then the pandemic hit. She started to raise our end to say, “There’s this live shopping thing. How can we get in as a brand?” As an executive in a retail company, especially if you have a large team, there is probably someone in your own team that can raise the rank and can take on that.
It reminds me also of a conversation we had with John Roman where the host was not much someone that was on the team, but he was a customer that was creating content because he was passionate about the product that he was receiving every week or every month. It’s interesting because it is true that as a first thing, people will think, “I need to find this creator that has this,” and I had that recently. I was talking to a client saying, “We need to find this guy.” “There’s this guy who has one million followers that maybe we would want to talk with.”
I was like, “It’s not because he has one million followers. First of all, that million people are in the US. That’s the market that is right for you. By the way, are you sure people are engaging with this product? Does he know to go live stream and all that? Jennifer is on the team and she is the person on camera. She was raising her hand for this whole call.” I’m like, “Why not Jennifer go live,” and everyone was like, “Jennifer, do you want that?” “I’d love to.”
As a company, I think it’s interesting to look within first as opposed to looking out because not everyone has someone on staff. I think it’s a valid point. I love that you say that. You’re talking about training and all that, which is great, but how do you go after a company to say, “We got this person. She seems to be wanting to do it. She’s excited and conducts her energy very well?” Yet live streaming and selling altogether at the same time is a skill. When you think about this program, what are the key things that you are teaching for this program so the person can go from 0.5 to 1?
It’s a very involved process to ensure that influencers who don’t have that experience but might be interested understand every platform feature so they’re not confused when telling people how to purchase products. It’s important that it is a seamless experience. If the host can’t explain it, then everything is going to go downhill. That’s priority number one. Separately, it’s about trying to make them understand how to persuade people to buy by making them feel like they are part of a community. Using TikTok as an example. TikTok’s advertising team released that 2 out of 3 people will buy a product on the platform, and 50% of TikTok users will buy something after watching a TikTok Live. The reason that that happens is because they feel like they’re a part of the community, and that’s often driven by the host.50% of TikTok users will buy something after watching a TikTok live because they feel like they're a part of the community, and that's often driven by the host. Click To Tweet
Our work is trying to make sure that hosts can foster that community and create it. One of the perfect examples is we have a client, Tickled Pinque Cosmetics. They’re a very small business and they are going live on TikTok and selling products in an app on TikTok’s feature that’s in beta to sell and have that full experience in the app. We’ve guided them through this process, but their founder is one of the best live-selling hosts I have ever encountered in my life. She created nail products, but she is an expert in this space.
What she does is she will have her team behind her and encourage her. They’ll have a few different people behind the scenes screaming and saying things on camera to encourage different viewers when they purchase a product, they’ll pull out different giveaways and they’ll have their team. They have a certain chance that they’ve developed as the cues for audiences whenever they purchase a product. It feels like one big sleepover when you’re on her stream. She’s focused on creating that fun and engaging experience. We try to replicate that with all of our clients so they have a unique format that is fitting to them. That’s often driven around the person behind the scenes.
That is such a great case study, and I think an example like that is powerful. You’ve outlined what a host can be doing to make a great experience for the viewer. What else can the brand be doing to prepare to engage during the stream and also after the live stream? What are some tips that you would have for them for their next one so that they can be ready for that, but also care for the people that made the purchase? It’s not over when the live stream is over. There’s still so much more involved after it all ends.
There are a lot of different formats that you can set up for live streams as a brand to engage with an audience. That can look like packing orders on stream. This is one of my favorite examples that I have seen. A lot of mid-size businesses and smaller businesses employ different social platforms. What they will do is involve people in that sort of behind-the-scenes experience where they are watching their orders get packed.
You have to be careful not to share shipping details and privacy details on the stream, but just by saying we are packing, “Catherine’s order right now.” Showing everything that goes on behind the scenes process is exciting for the viewers. That encourages others to buy since they are going to physically see their product being prepared for them. That occurs both for pre-packaged products on the spot and custom products and personalized products as well, but having that experience is valuable.
For brands, it’s vital to have a fun set. This is super underutilized and under-considered, but if you have an engaging set when people are scrolling through. If you’re on a social platform, and looking through the abundance of content that exists on the internet, you need to have a reason for people to stop and stare at your content. If you have an engaging set, that is going to remain a staple of your brand and a great reason for people to come back because it feels familiar to them.
Those are the two pieces of information that I would say. Have that fun format and have a fun set. Separately, once your stream is over, repurpose that content. I can’t say that enough and it’s super underutilized, but for brands, if you are able to take pieces of your live event and use that on your product description pages and newsletters, have that as a part of a process that you are using to retain customers and reengage them within live streams, that’s going to be valuable.
Also, make sure that you have that post-live care so people have content to go back to once the live has finished. If you are going live on Twitch for example, you want to make sure that you have sufficient clips on your Twitch page so people can go afterward and look at those, and feel like they’re still a part of that community. It depends on the platform. If you’re doing it on your own website, it’s going to be different and involved, but you have all of these different outlets that you do need to consider if you are preparing a live stream.
You have many great pieces of advice. I’m thrilled that you’re sharing all this. For the audience, if you’re interested in learning more about repurposing content, we encourage you to subscribe to the show because, in a few weeks, we have someone coming on that’s going to talk almost exclusively about how to repurpose content. Stay tuned, subscribe to the show, and you’ll get lots of details on that.
One thing that we don’t have any plans to cover yet, and we haven’t touched upon that much is how to design your video background and your set. I would love to know some tips and maybe some examples that you have. For those that cover big and small operations, what if it’s a one-man or woman show? What if they don’t have a big budget? Are there some simple things that someone could set up at home so that the background is still fun and engaging and eye-catching?
Especially if you are that one-man or one-woman show and you’re having a tiny space to work with, you do want to make sure that you are using something to implement your branding in the background. Whether you have a whiteboard you can put people’s names on it that are in the chat. You can make sure that they have that highlighted moment where if someone buys, you put their name on the wall. Use sticky notes and engage people so that way they feel like they are an integral part of your stream. As for larger enterprises, if you are able to invest in a streaming space, whether that’s in your office or you have a designated studio, that’s going to be valuable. We recommend for some brands to change with the season. Some to change per stream, depending on budget.
Some brands will use a traditional one-design set every time. I’m lucky enough that within Ghost Agency, my co-founder is an outstanding set designer that has years and years of experience in production. Her background is behind the scenes working on the tech side of Love Is Blind, MasterChef, and some incredible shows. Her experience working in TV and film has let us use her skills to help build these physical sets for clients. When we were both at a live streaming agency, we were working on Elf Cosmetics and we built their Amazon Live and Twitch studio. That was such an outstanding space for the brand since you got to engage with viewers in a consistent format that was both branded and also a fun and engaging live set.
Something that I noted in the conversation is that we talk quite a bit about the hook. That’s important when we think about the hook to a video, and then we try to explore it on a live stream. We never had a good answer so far. What I love about what you’re saying is that the hook is not the content or how you say things or anything. What you’re saying is, “Your hook is your stage. That’s what’s going to make the people pause and listen to what you have to say.” That’s the entertainment of what you create that will make the people stay or not.Your hook is your stage. That’s what's going to make people pause and listen to what you have to say. Click To Tweet
I resonated with that because I think it’s a novel idea. At least, I haven’t heard that so far. That’s interesting. I would love to go back to another thing you said. We talked about TikTok. A lot of people have been quite a bit talking about this. Unfortunately, there have been some difficulties for them. You are talking about Twitch. Twitch also went through some difficulties. Give us your perspective because first of all, there are not many people that are thinking live shopping and Twitch are a good equation. I would love for you to tell me about your experience with Twitch. Where is the market for Twitch? How should people think about Twitch? What’s the opportunity?
Twitch is a strong environment that is under considered. The brands who are interested in jumping in on Twitch are very innovative. Twitch has 30 million daily visitors. I know it’s nowhere near TikTok, but these are one of the most highly engaged audiences that I have ever seen. Just so you understand the picture of what monetization looks like, 70% of Twitch viewers will donate to the streamer that they like. This is just a tip jar that is virtual to support the streamer and feel like they are giving to this community so it can continue. It’s the PBS time of the internet where people are getting to give that donation to keep that channel going. Even more so, Twitch advertising released that 64% of Twitch viewers will buy a product that their favorite streamer recommends.
This recommendation-based community is fostered by the idea of the parasocial relationship where the viewer is engaged with the streamer. It feels like they have that sense of community and friendship with the streamer themselves. It feels like you’re getting a recommendation from a friend rather than an influencer who is behind the scenes. For the brands who have started engaging on Twitch, my understanding is that Amazon owns Twitch. The path to being more live commerce-focused isn’t far away.
I can foresee a future in the next year or so where it’s going to provide an even easier shopping experience within Twitch. You’re seeing that framework being built within the platform, and viewers are shockingly receptive to that. However, I will caution that Twitch is a very difficult environment to navigate. Probably for all of these social live-streaming environments, it’s one of the most dangerous for brand safety and brand perspective.
You have so much data right at your fingertips. I’m also incredibly impressed with how you remember all these statistics and metrics. You mentioned things that you would caution for brands. I know that that’s something we wanted to touch upon, the dark side of live streaming. We want to remain positive. The three of us are big believers in live shopping and see so much promise for brands, creators, and retailers. What are some things that people might not be prepared for or not aware of? What are some of the challenges of going live and how can people become more educated on them so that they can overcome them?
This is one of the most important topics for brands to hear before going live. It’s not because I want to dissuade any brand from going live. I’ve worked in this space. I’ve invested all of my efforts into creating an agency that is focused on this space. However, it’s vital that you understand the full picture of what is involved when going live and what are the risks so that you can be proactive and preempt issues before they hit.
When you’re in a live environment, you aren’t able to edit. You don’t have the liberty to keep recording and taking those cuts that you can do in a pre-recorded environment. Everything that happens in that live environment is a bit more critical. Obviously, it’s not live television and it’s on a smaller scale, but you have to be cautious.
I would typically take the downside or the dark side of live streaming and put them into two main buckets, with the first being what can affect a brand’s perception on the internet, and then the brand safety element. When it comes to what consumers’ perceptions are of a brand on the internet, tech is a very slippery slope. It has to do well and perform well. There have to be very limited to no issues with the tech in order for viewers to feel comfortable with that.
The majority of live-streaming viewers will say that the quality of the stream is the most imp important factor of the live stream itself. If they are seeing something that has a bunch of audio issues and everything keeps failing, they’re not going to stay on. It’s live for a reason. If they aren’t getting that engaging and real-time element to it, then there’s no reason for them to stay, and you are losing them to another audience. That is a concerning thing that can happen if you’re not prepared for that.
I believe it was TechRadar that said that viewers will leave if the quality of the stream is bad within 90 seconds of the stream. You have 90 seconds to capture them. I believe this is probably less on platforms like Instagram Live or on TikTok Live, but on a D2C, you have a little bit more time since they’re there for a reason. You have a small window. That’s important to consider.
Second to that is canceling on the internet. We’ve heard of cancel culture and what can go down there, but I’ve observed firsthand brands experiencing live streaming on social platforms being canceled, and having clips go on Reddit. Whether it’s a failure that happened during a giveaway and that wasn’t executed properly and they’re getting canceled, or if it’s not being inclusive and diverse with the audiences that you are including whether it’s hosts or being encompassing with the viewers of what you’re offering. These are important things to consider. A live-streaming environment is not going to be very forgiving if you mess up with this.
I view that as make or break if you aren’t going to think about ahead of time how you can avoid upsetting people through the hosts that you have, the way that they’re talking about your brand, what they’re promoting, and if they’re being sensitive to different time periods and times of the live stream. You have to be careful what calendar are you going with. The other end of that is where it gets scary. This is something that every brand needs to prepare for, and that’s called swatting.
Whitney, you mentioned earlier that you hadn’t heard of the term swatting and most people haven’t before, which is why I’m glad to be sharing this with everyone. I experienced this firsthand as a streamer. Swatting is where a viewer, whether it’s a fan or a hater, will call the police and enlist the FBI to go to your house with the SWAT team and create a live fake scenario that’s going on to scare the person on camera. It’s a terrifying experience. This happened to me in 2016.
I had to physically move homes because of it. My address was leaked. So much personal information was out there because a fan or a hater called the local police station and caused this entire fake experience. Swatting doesn’t happen on live streams. It’s happened to Kim Kardashian and the Kardashian family, Selena Gomez, and Paris Hilton. Streamers are very vulnerable to these attacks as well. Pokimane is one of the biggest streamers of all time. She’s had this happen to her. The reason it’s common within live streams is because they get to see the effects of what they’re doing happen in rollout in real time.
When I’m hearing the swatting, I cannot imagine the amount of stress. When you are telling the people who are doing it, it’s also like a badge of honor. It’s like you are right there in some way. You are part of the elite in some way, to see the glass half-full on that side. It’s certainly something that people have to think about. I wanted to say something about the idea of the tech has to be good because this is something I experience very often. Ninety percent of the tech problem can be solved by having your camera directly plugged into the internet as opposed to Wi-Fi.
This is so much of a misconception where people will use their Wi-Fi and then your kids or partner is going to Netflix and then all of a sudden, you don’t have enough bandwidth, and you’re destroying the experience you’re trying to create. I’ve seen that in big brands and you’re like, “Do you want Wi-Fi? Are you kidding me? What’s going on with you?” I want to mention that because people still always use Wi-Fi when doing live streaming. I love the fact that you are trying to approach those dark elements. We’ve talked about it a little bit, but in some way, there’s this counterargument that we have heard for many years that it can happen. It’s not pleasant and it’s all about trying to manage the instance.
Once upon a time, a video was the whole life of the product cycle. Now a video is going to last for a week or two. There could be impact damage, but in some way, that should not prevent you to go live because if that video happened, it won’t be pleasant for a week, but then you’re going to create another live stream and people are going to talk about something else. On the other end, what I want to question also is when people are thinking about this whole dark element. The bigger the brand, the bigger we see that.
Especially on the creative side, I’m sure you come from both the creator side and you can comment on that, but people start to think about, “What are the implications? What can you say and can’t say? How do you say things?” It’s those super strong vetting, emails, meetings, and all that. At the end of the day, the creator is feeling crunch about holding those things they can’t say and can’t do that they almost lose the spontaneity. Putting too many barriers to creativity is also something that you don’t want to do. It’s a very fine balance when you think about those things to make sure that you address them properly.Putting too many barriers in the way of the creator's creativity is something that you don't want to do. Click To Tweet
It was a wonderful guest that was saying, “One of the best ways we are doing that is highlighting the topics where you don’t want to go.” The creator can know where’s the barrier. “We don’t talk about race or something like this.” The creator can evolve, experiment, and be his most natural knowing that those are the boundaries of where we don’t want to go. If we go that route, that’s how we bring them back to the original topic.
I personally like those boundaries and giving back the responsibility to the creator because the creator is a person that has probably gone through haters quite at some time. They all know how to handle them. Giving that trust to the creator is important. That’s also why you want a streamer because a streamer knows how to handle that better than someone that does a picture on Instagram. It’s been a fascinating conversation and interesting. I appreciate you coming on stage. It was good.
Thank you so much for having me. I want to echo before we head out that I totally agree with what you were saying here. Let creators create. Make sure that they’re having the liberty to do what they do best. Set those boundaries. You can do a lot of the work ahead of time by making sure you have these creators with all of the range that you want to display in the choices of which creator you go with. That’s going to be very important. Let them do what they do best. Thank you so much for inviting me. I appreciate both of you and the environment you’re creating here.
It goes without saying that this is incredibly valuable. You have much knowledge and experience. You’ve covered things in a way that we’ve never fully done on this show before. I’m thrilled to bring this to our audience and perhaps to some new people who stumbled across this and are curious about live eCommerce, how do they start, what should they know ahead of time, or how can they improve it?
When I was at the Natural Products Expo, I remember talking to a big brand that had done some experimenting with live shopping campaigns and didn’t have great results. They admitted that they didn’t know what they were doing, and that’s probably why they didn’t get much ROI. As you do with your agency, you’ve given many great pieces of advice for somebody to navigate this and improve the return on investment that they get with live shopping, and bolster the confidence that you can have, whether you’re a brand or an influencer exploring this space.
Thanks for being here. Thanks for all your great questions, Nicolas, as always. You two get to meet in person perhaps during Shoptalk, which is also great. Speaking of meeting people, we encourage the audience to check out the private community that we’ve put together, although it’s not in person, at least not yet. Maybe one day we’ll do an in-person event with eStreamly. For now, you can meet people all around the world instantaneously by joining our free private community for live shopping where you can talk to some of the guests of this show, other brands, retailers, and content creators. Talk about collaborating together and learning from each other. That link is over at eStreamly.com. Those two places are also where you can find Nicole’s information. Thanks, Nicole and Nicolas. To the audience, we’ll see you again next episode. Bye for now.
- Ghost Agency
- Sarah Williams – Past Episode
- John Roman – Past Episode