“SEO is for everybody and every stage of the game.”
When is the right time to focus on eCommerce SEO? Is it for everyone and every stage of business growth? Are you showing up for the keywords you want to show up for in search engines? This is what we explore with special guest Mariah Magazine, an SEO Visibility Strategist and Intuitive Marketing Expert for online business owners over at MariahMagazine.com. She’s a firm believer that showing up on Google and marketing your business doesn’t have to be as difficult & overwhelming as everyone makes it. Since 2015 she’s been helping clients increase their visibility and land amazing clients, customers, and opportunities without stressing about social media or paid ads. Check out her podcast: https://www.curiouslyguided.com.
Tune in to this episode and you just might get some wild results as quickly as 30 days like Mariah’s clients have achieved. Gain an understanding of how Google’s search engine works, such as the elements of long tail keywords and phrases. Hear Mariah break down what search bots do and explain the “golden crown of SEO data”. Find out why it’s so important to consider the search intent and do keyword research before you implement. Learn the benefits and pitfalls of using AI tools, like ChatGPT, to create content. Uncover perspective other search engine indexes like Bing. Discover how to know if you’re on the right track with SEO and what conversion metrics you should track. Get tips on using video in your website strategy, such as using blog posts and YouTube.
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How To Get On Page 1 Of Google With Mariah Magazine
In this episode, our special guest is Mariah Magazine, who is an SEO visibility strategist and intuitive marketing expert for online business owners over at MariahMagazine.com. She is a firm believer that showing up on Google and marketing your business doesn’t have to be as difficult and overwhelming as everyone makes it. Since 2015, she’s been helping clients increase their visibility and land amazing clients, customers, and opportunities without stressing about social media or paid ads, which sounds excellent. We have been chatting with Mariah a bit before the interview, and there’s so much we are looking forward to covering in this episode. Before we get into that conversation, Nicolas has his weekly update.
I would love to remind you, the reader, that we have new episodes dropping every Tuesday. If you haven’t subscribed to the show yet or looked at the backlog of episodes at eStreamly.com, we highly recommend it. We work hard to cover all the different elements of eCommerce, live streaming, and everything in between. Also, the marketing and things that we don’t always think about. From a business side, whether you are a brand, an influencer, or a retailer, we are here to support you. You can subscribe by looking at the player that you are using or going over to eStreamly.com. Nicolas, I will hand it over to you to give an update on what else is happening with eStreamly.
I’m super excited to be here. We will be at NRF, which is the National Retail Federation. It’s a trade show that is in New York happening from the 14th to the 17th of January 2023. If you are around and want to say hi, we will be excited to have you at our booth.
It’s funny. Whenever you mention it, I realize that I don’t understand what NRF is. Can you share a few details and what makes it something worth going to?
It’s the National Retail Federation, so it’s an association of all the retailers in the US that are getting together in New York. They are renting a free floor conference center, and then there are a lot of retailers coming from all over the world. Also, partners and brands. It’s a trade show where people talk. There are also a lot of conferences around the site. What’s interesting is if you are a retailer or a brand, it’s free to access. It used to be almost $1,200 or something. They made it free. They used to be the biggest retail show in the US. It’s a pretty exciting show. I’m looking forward to it. It’s going to be fun.
That sounds fun. I feel a little bit envious. I love going to trade shows and seeing what’s new. I bet after this conversation with Mariah, you will be thinking about it a little differently from an SEO standpoint because once you start focusing on SEO, I feel like you noticed the opportunities everywhere. Even in our brief time speaking with Mariah before we started this interview, she identified things that we can work on over at eStreamly, which is exciting. Nicolas, I imagine that you are eager to start the conversation. What would you like to know from Mariah first?
First of all, thank you, Mariah, for joining us. SEO is not a topic that we have approached in the show so I’m pretty excited to have you. The first thing I want to ask you is about being an entrepreneur. It’s been a few years since we started eStreamly. I had a conversation with an SEO expert per se, and they always tell me we are too young for it, “It’s not the right moment for you.” From your point of view, do you think that SEO is for everyone, or is it at every stage of your growth journey? I’d love to start with that.
I’m glad that we are getting this on video because if anybody saw my facial reaction when you said that, it’s a no. You are not too small to dive into SEO. SEO is for everybody. It’s for every stage of the game. It’s just you break it into phases. It depends on how competitive the keywords are. If you are a new business and let’s say you are a copywriter because this seems to be the example that I give all the time, you are not going to try to target the keyword copywriter.No business is too small to dive into SEO. It is for everybody and every stage of the game. Click To Tweet
I’m sorry but it’s way too competitive. They call them long-tail keywords or key phrase. Essentially what that is, is a combination of three or more words. We want to get specific with the keywords that we are targeting. Also, think about conversions. For eCommerce people, let’s say I want to buy new shoes for a wedding dress. I go to google it. I’m not going to type in shoes because it’s not going to show me exactly what I want.
I would type in pink high heel shoes for a bridesmaid’s dress or a summer dress or open-toe high heel pink shoes. That’s a long-tail keyword. It’s also very specific. You can tell where that person is in the buyer journey. They are going to be more likely to convert because you are showing up as the perfect solution to the problem that they have but if I were to go in and type in shoes and I show up on page one, I don’t know what these people are looking for so it’s unlikely that they are going to convert.
They might go over to my website and check it out. They are like, “Hiking shoes, I don’t need this. I need fancy shoes.” It’s not going to convert, so you being on page one for these vague keywords isn’t helpful anyways. All of that to say, there are always gaps in the market. I have worked with dozens and dozens of clients under SEO. I am yet to find clients where I can’t find a gap in the market. That’s the sweet spot. Where are our competitors not taking advantage of?
Another thing is don’t think that your competitors are killing it with Google and SEO just because they have a lot of TikTok or Instagram followers. When I do competitive research for my clients, they will send me people that are killing it on Instagram and they are non-existent to Google most of the time. There are so many gaps in the market but so many people beat themselves up. They are like, “They are killing it on Instagram and everywhere. There are no gaps for me.” That’s BS. There are always gaps in the market.
Nicolas, I feel like this might hit home for you too because when you are in a niche such as livestreaming eCommerce as we are doing, it can feel like everybody is making a livestreaming piece of software. Everybody’s talking about it. Sometimes you need someone else from the outside to say, “No. There aren’t that many people and there are gaps there.” Is that something that you can relate to Nicolas with eStreamly?
We have been trying to do a lot of SEO on our side. We have the show, regular blogs, and everything. It’s still something that I found difficult. Defining a strategy is not all about putting content. That’s what I wanted to say. Initially when I came up with the notion of, “We want to run for SEO,” it was like, “Let’s put a ton of content and something is going to pop up.” As a matter of fact, if we do look at the SEO report of eStreamly, our clients are much better than us because out of the top 20 keywords that people are searching us for, 19 are client-related keywords. You are like, “There’s probably something there.” Do you have something to say about that, Mariah?
I do. I see this a lot with clients, especially with clients with podcasts. Let me break down how the search bots work. This is going to connect some dots here. Google has little bots that go through and crawl the web so they take note of the websites and the content that’s on them. They scan the content and try to get the main idea of what a page is. Websites don’t rank on Google. Pages do. It’s on a page-by-page basis.
They try to get an idea of the main idea so that they can put it in Google’s index. Google’s index is a big filing cabinet. They are trying to organize the content on the web so that when you search Google, Google goes into the filing cabinet and tries to pull out and show you the best results that it thinks matched what that person searched for. The thing is that if your titles, specifically, or your content doesn’t have a keyword focus, they will pull any word. Technically, any combination of words is a keyword.
Before I started focusing on SEO, I was showing up on a page for the phrase, “What does the name Mariah mean?” Mariah was all over my website, so Google was like, “We don’t know where else to put her.” I also had a client who was a funny copywriter. One of her blog posts that was copywriting tips was showing up on page two for butt jokes. She used that content in the blog post so Google was like, “We don’t have anybody on page two for that so we will just toss you there.”
It’s not enough to just create content and be like, “Find it, Google. It’s helpful.” We have to give these Googlebots context clues in the spots where they are looking for these keywords. That’s typically why it happens. If you were interviewing Tony Robbins, you are naturally going to be using his name all over the page. It’s going to be in the SEO title, the meta description, and throughout the content.
Google’s like, “We will put this in the filing cabinet for Tony Robbins, probably on page ten because his name is quite competitive.” That’s why it’s so important to do keyword research with strategy and then implement it. I wish clients would do keyword strategy before they even built their website because it can tell us a lot about how you are structuring things, your services, products, and collections. eCommerce people, especially retail, you have it made in the shade when it comes to having enough pages to target different keywords.
I bet you, Nicolas is sitting here thinking of so many things. One thing that comes to mind is I’m very eager as it’s a fairly timely topic in early-2023. We have covered this very briefly on the show so far, which is using AI tools. The world has been a buzz, especially with creators and people with websites. Anyone who’s looking to create more content is wondering how they can use tools like ChatGPT to generate content for them.
As we discussed a little bit in a previous episode, there are pros and cons to this. One of the cons that people are bringing up is that if you use AI tools, two issues can happen. 1) You run the risk of plagiarism or the AI might be pulling from different sources. You might be accidentally plagiarizing something. 2) Google may notice that you are doing this and it could hurt you in a way. I’m curious if you have noticed this or read about this, Mariah. The third thing too is if everybody’s using AI, would we have a lot of similar content? Is this something that you have looked into much, Mariah, or have an opinion when it comes to using AI tools?
I haven’t looked much into it per se, to be honest, because I enjoy creating content. Truly, I do. In terms of getting on Google, I can see the pitfalls with it. I can also see the benefits like it can hammer out this content. The piece that we can’t forget in AI whether it’s SEO or in any industry is we cannot lose humanity, personality, and perspective. That’s what makes our content different.
What makes us as humans and individuals different is our perspective, our experiences, our tone, and the way that we speak, educate, and talk. Essentially, if everybody’s doing it and let’s say AI can only pull out twenty different versions, they are all going to somewhat, in some way, could sound a little regurgitated.
Here’s the thing with getting on Google. Google doesn’t need more content. Google has a ton of content. It needs better content. Can your AI create better content than what is already showing up on page one? That’s the thing. If we were to boil SEO down, the whole thing is that Google wants to show its users the best solution to the problem. How you get on page one becomes the best solution to the problem. Will your AI-created blog posts be the best solution to the problem? I’m not sure. I haven’t read it. Also, we have to take a look at who’s showing up on page one and how they are elaborating.Google doesn’t need more content. It needs better content than what AI can produce. Click To Tweet
The other thing is that Google is always rolling out updates but one of the updates that they are getting serious about that I heard is that they are going to start prioritizing showcasing different perspectives on page one. A lot of people are starting to create content for SEO, which is great but they are all just saying the same thing in different ways. Google wants to start showcasing different perspectives for things so it’s not the same reworded thing over and over again. There are pros and cons. At the end of the day, we cannot lose what makes us genius in our space.
I love this whole conversation. Thank you, Whitney, for bringing the AI into that. I don’t know if you heard the news but I put it in your newsletter. Microsoft has acquired ChatGPT so they are partially the owner of it. They want to add it to Bing. There are a lot of memes on the internet about who is browsing on Bing. I don’t know if you remember that video a couple of years ago. People are using it. The idea is that instead of putting a word and then having content pulled up, the ChatGPT will answer the questions. Some argue like, “This is the end of the search as we know it.” I’d love to hear your perspective on that. How do you think SEO is going to play a role in this whole thing?
It’s interesting because, to be honest, I haven’t looked too much into it. My thing is where are they getting information from? Probably blog posts that they are finding on Google. It’s going to become an issue if this chat thing would essentially be plagiarizing. It would be pulling the content that I created and then saying that this chat thing figured it out for me.
There’s going to be an issue with that because it’s like, “Where is this AI learning this information from the content that’s already created?” I doubt they are going to hire all of these developers, educators, and experts to come in and fill their database. Why would you do that when you already have a Google database, a Bing database, or a database all over the web?
I don’t think that it’s necessarily going to burn everything to the ground like everybody thinks because there are some holdups here. It’s like, “That’s my content and perspective. I’m not giving you permission to funnel it through you and not give me credit for it.” That’s something that people forget about when they are running around screaming that the whole world is going to change.
It’s refreshing that you don’t have a lot of knowledge about ChatGPT because you can look at it beyond that. A lot of people but not everybody are hyper-focused on the pros and cons and taking sides about how to use it. Having a balanced perspective that’s not super biased like yours, Mariah is beneficial. Going back to Nicolas’s point about Bing, I saw that too. I saw the news on January 5th, 2023.
It’s interesting because I remember Bing was trying hard many years ago, probably in 2010 when it was still relevant. All of a sudden, it comes back out again. I’m sure people have been using Bing. Mariah, maybe you have a perspective on it. Speaking of broadening our horizons, we also can’t just focus on Google. There are other search engines and other companies that are trying to carve out their relevance. How does a platform like Bing differ from Google? Is it important to pay attention to that? Would you recommend people still stay focused on Google SEO?
When you SEO optimize your website, you are optimizing it for all search engines. As SEO people, we talk about Google so much because they have the biggest market share. We care more about their algorithm but in terms of optimizing for bots, Bing also has bots. Making it easier for the bots to understand the main idea of this page to then put it in their index is beneficial there too.
It’s irrelevant. I don’t care if it’s Bing’s algorithm or Google’s algorithm. It doesn’t matter. It’s essentially like, what’s the strategy? What are people typing in? It reminds me of everybody who was like, “Everybody is using Siri to voice search.” It’s like, “How are you going to take advantage of that with SEO?” Those are long-tail keywords. It’s the same thing that we are talking about over and over again. People are asking specific questions when they are voice searching. Isn’t this another clue to then create content to be the best solution for a specific problem? It all goes together.
It’s an insightful conversation. For any folks that are trying to get into SEO, I can speak for myself for instance. We are trying to do as best as we can around it. We know we have a lot of flow and we are trying to improve but how do you know that you are on the right track? You say it yourself. It’s not only about creating content. It’s about creating the right content in the right way and format. What are the metrics that you should be using? How do you know that you are on the right path? Is expectation should be the same for any type of website or a creator should expect something versus a brand should expect something different as well? I’d love to hear your perspective there.
My first rebuttal is, does everybody have Google Search Console? If you don’t have Google Search Console, you are floundering. I say that in a funny way. If you don’t have Google Search Console, you are not getting the data that you are allowed to see about your website and search for free. The two tools that Google typically likes people to have with their websites is Google Analytics.
At this point, I don’t even know if I recommend people setting up anymore because GA 4 is like garbage, to say it nicely. It is so overwhelming for smaller businesses that there’s no point. I logged into the dashboard and maybe somebody listening knows more about the Google Analytics dashboard than I do so please fill me in. I can’t see what organic social media platform is driving traffic specifically. I can only see organic social.
I’m like, “I’m sorry but that’s not helpful. Why am I even tracking this?” If anybody has solutions for tracking website analytics, especially a free version, a lot of the time, my clients are not going to pay $25 a month to track data because I’m the one that needs the data. They don’t use it to see how important it is. That’s my spew about Google Analytics.
The other one is the complete opposite. It’s the golden crown of SEO data. Google Search Console, you can go and set it up on your website pretty easily. Essentially, when you have it set up, you can log in and see what keywords are driving traffic to your website. That’s what you are going to look for. You are going to look at these keywords. “Are these the keywords that I want to be found for?” If it’s not, then you are not following the right thing. There’s something missing here.
Those keywords that are showing up in your Google Search Console are your low-hanging fruit. You can dive into those keywords. You can see the click-through rate, what position you are in, and how many impressions you are getting. You can find out all of this data and get access to your data for your website for free. A lot of people think that you have to pay for this. You don’t.
The other thing that’s great about Google Search Console is when the Googlebots recrawl your website. They crawl your website pretty consistently because they have to keep the filing cabinet updated. When they are crawling your site, if they see an error, they are not going to go to your contact page and be like, “Whitney and Nicolas, there’s an error on this page. Fix it.” They are not going to do that.
They are going to put the error in Google Search Console. You are going to be able to see your errors, warnings, and things that the Googlebots are like, “We don’t know what this is.” I’m not saying that every error or warning is the end of the world in the Google Search console. They are bots. Technology is not perfect. Sometimes it will pull things that aren’t even true.Technology is not perfect. Sometimes, it will pull things that aren't even true. Click To Tweet
I would say that’s where you need to look. That’s the data and traffic that you are getting from Google. That’s the performance. You are like, “Am I on the right track?” I don’t know. Are you showing up for the keywords that you want to be showing up for? If you are on page 5 for it but you are still being associated with it, we can talk about a strategy to move you from page 5 to page 1, but half of the battle is getting in the filing cabinet on any page at first.
To follow this up, your next question was, are things different for creatives and eCommerce shops? Nope. They are going to essentially look at the same things. To even take it further, you could be like, “Am I getting any sales from this?” You can track that. If you are a service provider or something like that on your contact form, you could be like, “Where did you hear from me? Google search? Cool.” The main thing that you are going to want to look at is Google Search Console. That’s the bee’s knees of data.
We do a lot of things around video and livestreaming. What is your perspective on SEO and video? Do you think video helps the SEO? If so, in what dimension? How do you leverage video to feed your SEO strategy?
Google isn’t, at this time, smart enough to dissect videos. They are getting there. They are trying. They are implementing things on website platforms like WordPress. They are trying to get the tags and figure out what the videos are. They are not quite there yet. If you want to show up on Google, focus on the blog post content and then embed the video in that blog post. Don’t upload the video to your website itself. Use a third party because having a huge video file is going to slow down your speed for downloading it.
Google is not going to show a slow website on page one so you are going to hinder yourself but implement video in the blog post or on the page, your About page, or your homepage. I don’t care what page. Implement it on the page along with the written text about it or have the video be a bonus because Google sees that as giving different ways for people to get their problem solved. It’s bonus points like multimedia.
The other thing is YouTube. YouTube is owned by Google. I have a YouTube channel. Most of my traffic comes from YouTube search and Google search. You can see when you are typing into Google, “Do videos from YouTube show up?” That’s another thing too. There are different avenues here but Google at this point is not smart enough to be able to dissect everything correctly.
I love the way that you are breaking down all of these things. One thing I want to make sure we touch upon before we wrap up is the element of solving people’s problems and how you are focused on exploring intuitive ways to market a business. The role that the user experience has within SEO is important to talk about because sometimes we become so consumed. Either the brand, creator, or retailer, we are on the other side trying to reach a customer but not necessarily thinking about their experience because we are thinking about the results that we want to get from them. Before we wrap up, Mariah, would you touch upon how important user experience is for SEO?
Google judges a website on over 200 factors, and half of those are user experience. It is massive. It’s how fast your website loads. That is user experience. Can people find your pages from the menu? How many clicks does it take to find a certain page? That’s user experience. Does your website have broken links on it? Having too many broken links is a poor user experience.
User experience is massive and that’s where a lot of old perspective SEO people are doing their clients an injustice. They will be like, “Put that keyword there and that keyword there.” I’m like, “Yeah, but look at this homepage. It’s not inviting to anybody. Say what you are going to say because you are not saying anything.”
User experience is thinking about the pages and how they are organized on your navigation, considering your footer. What is going to be helpful for people in the footer? What do they need to be able to click on? How long are they spending on the page? If you have a video embedded, they are going to be spending some time on the page so that’s a good thing.
The whole thing is Google wants to showcase the best solution to the problem. A big piece of this is, does this website know what they are talking about? Are they an authority in the space? Google will look at certain things like do they have a contact page? People don’t think that Google looks at this stuff. It’s not just keywords. Do they have an About page? Do they have social media links that link out to a social media profile so that we can verify that they are not just a potato sitting behind a computer?
There are these different pieces that come into play here. To be honest, truly I wish that website designers would bring SEO people in before they create a website because I’m getting a lot of clients that come to me. I had a client who spent $20,000 on a website and because of the SEO strategy that I’m creating for her, I’m like, “We have to shift some things. This does not make sense to the user.” She was like, “I don’t want to be using Instagram all the time.”
I was like, “If SEO is a priority, then we have to bite the bullet. I wish that you came to me earlier.” Use SEO keywords, do the research, and try to figure out what people are typing in because it’s different than what we think. It’s different a lot of the time and we also have to consider the search intent. Go to Google and type in singer. What shows up? The sewing machine. Type in, “The singer.” What shows up? It’s a song. One word makes a complete difference.
I tell my clients, “Before you target a keyword, google it. Make sure that what you assume is showing up because that matters.” Market research and try to figure out how other people are saying it. I had a photographer client. She’s like, “I want to show up on page one for natural lifestyle photography.” I’m like, “What do you do? What does that mean?” She’s like, “I take pictures of a family.” I was like, “I would type in ‘family photographer.’ I don’t know that I would type in ‘natural light luxury photographer.’”
I don’t use those words to be able to find things. I’m not saying that any of those words are wrong. I don’t have the keyword data in front of me but for the story’s sake, we have to be very clear. We have to do the research to understand what these people are saying and do a Google search to make sure that it makes sense. That’s my spew about that.
You certainly have a lot to say and you are passionate about the topic. When we started the conversation before the episode, you say that you are a nerd of SEO and I can see that. That’s cool. It’s fascinating. It’s an interesting conversation. The word SEO itself scares a lot of people, me first. I won’t say you overthink but I see this weird word that you have to go over. You do it but you don’t know how to do it. Every time you ask someone, it’s like you have ten different opinions about the same problem and you are like, “What do I do?”
It sounds like you are able to distill it very well and that’s what I like about the conversation. You are making it fun too so those are the reasons why. It’s like livestreaming. When you take a topic and make it entertaining, all of a sudden, you have a different ear and tune to it. That’s what I love about how you present SEO. It’s been an interesting conversation so far. It’s fascinating. Think about SEO in a context of a show. A lot of things that we talk about are consistency when you do livestreaming and having multiple shows.
The reason we do that is that when people know and expect you to be there, they might tune in and expect you to do a show like a podcast and everything. I wonder if, in this context, you would advise someone that is trying to promote their show and do some specific keyword or anything special around a channel itself and try to have this SEO strategy to promote that. You will say that this is one vertical of what you are doing so you should think more as a global of your brand and not try to dive into one specific. I don’t know if I was clear but I’d love to hear your insight there.
The first thing that I do want to say is that SEO is an art. It’s not a science. A lot of people think it’s a science. It’s not. We have to balance our brand and copywriting. Everything with SEO practices, old version SEO didn’t care. They were just going to plug keywords any way they could and stuff it. It sounded spammy. We need our perspective but we also need to be aware of where we are using the keywords. I like the fact that it’s an art and not a science because there is some moving, grooving, testing, and tweaking. That’s what I’m so obsessed about it is that your SEO, like your website, can never be perfect, truly never.SEO is an art and not a science. It requires the right balance of branding and copywriting. Click To Tweet
The question about using SEO to drive traffic to a specific show, SEO does best with evergreen things because it has time to build momentum. Let’s say you had maybe a topic for a show. It’s a long-term topic that you were always talking about. Let’s say you are selling backpacks. Instead of trying to show up for the back-to-school backpack sale in 2022, it’s going to be here and it’s going to be gone. It’s like, “How can we make that evergreen? What’s going to be on the page when it’s over?”
It’s like how to choose the perfect back-to-school backpack. In the content, you have the callouts where it’s like, “We do shows. Do you want to snag the deal and join our live show?” For SEO specifically, we have to think about the evergreen content because SEO can take a while, but I will say that the first phase of SEO like getting associated with those keywords, that’s typically where we see the fastest growth.
After I implemented SEO on a website, I had clients with wild results within 30 days. It was incredible how many keywords they were starting to be found for. The thing that takes a while is moving up in rankings so it’s moving from page 3 to page 1. If you only have a page that’s maybe alive for a month, Google’s going to be like, “I found out about this a week ago, and now it’s not even relevant.” Why would it bother putting it into the index?
It’s not because you are creating content. First of all, you have to think about how you make that content evergreen and then be searchable. It takes time. That content has to be not fast-paced or fast-consumed. You have to find a way to bring back the audience to it so it becomes relevant and starts to be incremental to all the other content that you are producing. It’s been a fascinating and interesting conversation so far. I don’t know if you have a final word for us, Whitney.
I couldn’t agree more. As I said to Mariah offline, I could geek out about SEO all the time because it’s a subject matter that I feel like I have only scratched the surface on. I’m not afraid of it as some people are. I’m curious about it. Mariah, you have revealed to me a lot of things that I didn’t know. You have helped me think about things from different perspectives. You pointed out opportunities for us here at eStreamly. I feel like there’s so much value for the readers so I’m deeply grateful that you came on and shared with so much enthusiasm.
You also have your podcast, which I can’t wait to dig into because I love the approach that you take with that. You can go to Mariah’s website. You can also go to CuriouslyGuided.com to check out that other podcast if you are eager to get more. Hopefully, Mariah will join us in the private community that we have over for anyone in the live eCommerce world.
If you are a reader that hasn’t checked out yet, you are welcome to join us. Go to eStreamly.com or wherever you prefer. Find the link to the community. Come on in to talk with other people, brands, retailers, influencers, and experts like Mariah who can help you think through some of these things, brainstorm, collaborate, and all of these elements that benefit our businesses. Thank you so much, Mariah, for joining us. Thanks to Nicolas for asking wonderful questions, and thanks to the reader. We will be back again with another episode. Bye for now.